tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post6591989170537769119..comments2024-03-20T02:26:46.482-04:00Comments on Joanna Bourne: Injecting Present TenseJo Bournehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13457862962618886252noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-41270098022107668462010-06-05T19:49:53.684-04:002010-06-05T19:49:53.684-04:00Hi Desiree --
Yes. Go read FORBIDDEN. You can l...Hi Desiree --<br /><br />Yes. Go read FORBIDDEN. You can listen to me natter on about writing anytime.<br />*g*Jo Bournehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457862962618886252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-66689104999582131582010-06-05T13:10:22.437-04:002010-06-05T13:10:22.437-04:00I cannot believe this, but I've been sucked in...I cannot believe this, but I've been sucked in here, reading Jo write about writing instead of finishing THE FORBIDDEN ROSE. Must. Go. Now.Desiréenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-54858868607939669302010-04-22T23:32:15.075-04:002010-04-22T23:32:15.075-04:00Wow! Thanks for that! It took me a while to get ba...Wow! Thanks for that! It took me a while to get back to this page. I am glad I did. I am still soldiering on, and trying not to flutter from idea to idea so much that good ones get left behind, or that there are too many to go to. The ON is probably kind of what I always end up doing. It is like the narration is the MC's alter ego, wiser by hindsight. It might even be the MC himself, so in a way omniscient, but still 'in his head'. Anyway, it's all falling into place. Thanks for the help and advice.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-20702995433274356032010-03-21T11:55:32.904-04:002010-03-21T11:55:32.904-04:00@ Anon
**At the moment I am reviewing an short st...@ Anon<br /><br />**At the moment I am reviewing an short story of mine.**<br /><br />Utermost cool.<br /><br />** It's 3rd person and strictly reflects the central character's POV.**<br /><br />When you are in the Third Person POV, and you want to make general comments about the world, you got a couple easy ways to do it. <br />-- Ordinary narrative,<br />-- the character internals -- that is, him just thinking along in ordinary POV, or <br />-- Internal Monologue. <br /><br />It goes along something like this:<br /><br />John walked the length of the concourse, hoping for decent food. Everything was overpriced and mediocre. He found himself thinking,[Itlaics] This is just one more of the joys of flying.[/Italics]<br /><br />The first sentence is the ordinary narrative that goes on all the time. It is not 'said' by anybody in particular. It's just there. And it is in Past Tense.<br /><br />The second sentence is John's 'internals'. His thoughts. These are expressed in Past Tense. The language used for internals generally sounds like John.<br /><br />The third sentence, in Italics, is Internal Monolgue. It sounds like John's dialog -- and its Home Tense is Present Tense.<br /><br /><br />**I wonder how to treat generalities about mankind or society. Should they be kept in the Past Tense as well, especially when they address 'our' and 'we', or is that a 'no-no' in fiction writing? **<br /><br />In the cases where you are actually IN John's POV, it is probably best to stick in Past Tense like an elephant in the La Brea tar pits.<br /> <br />You can do about anything you need to do in Past Tense. <br /><br />In this posting, I talk about slipping in and out of Present Tense. <br />but I don't actually DO this myself (very often) because it is so bloody hard to do well.<br /><br /><br />** In the narrative flow there are several observations by the 'voice' of the story, either analysing events or reflecting the MC's thoughts. . . . Is the voice of the story 'with us' while the characters and events are in the past, thereby allowing the voice to address particular things in the present?**<br /><br />What you seem to be talking about here is Omniscient Narrator or Intrusive Narrator. <br /><br />In ON, it is as if there is another character in the story. One who speaks directly to the audience. <br /><br />This ON speech can be in either Past Tense or Present Tense. <br /><br />At its most direct, an Omniscient Narrator can talk right face-to-face with the reader. That's when the Present Tense emerges. We have stepped right out of the story at this point. <br /><br />For the most intrusive of ONs, handled supremely well, look at Kipling's Just So Stories. They're in etext everywhere so they're easy to find. Joel Chandler Harris's Brer Rabbit Stories are another fine example.<br /><br /><br />See Kim, perhaps, for Kipling employing a much less intrusive ON to do the occasional passage of description and comment. <br /> <br />Beyond that, I suggest you google "writing advice" AND "omniscient narrator" to see what people have to offer on the best way to do what you're trying to do. <br /><br />ETA. My posts just don't post right sometimes.Jo Bournehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457862962618886252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-23905732920966276762010-03-21T11:47:03.557-04:002010-03-21T11:47:03.557-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jo Bournehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457862962618886252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-68017681765769912582010-03-20T02:36:53.730-04:002010-03-20T02:36:53.730-04:00Hi, this is a great article. At the moment I am re...Hi, this is a great article. At the moment I am reviewing an short story of mine. It's 3rd person and strictly reflects the central character's POV. In the narrative flow there are several observations by the 'voice' of the story, either analysing events or reflecting the MC's thoughts. Tense is all about time but I wonder how to treat generalities about mankind or society. Should they be kept in the Past Tense as well, especially when they address 'our' and 'we', or is that a 'no-no' in fiction writing? Is the voice of the story 'with us' while the characters and events are in the past, thereby allowing the voice to address particular things in the present?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-3681980478321035162010-03-12T09:45:35.712-05:002010-03-12T09:45:35.712-05:00@ Linda --
Subjunctive and conditional are kinda ...@ Linda --<br /><br />Subjunctive and conditional are kinda interesting. <br /><br />The subjunctive is <br />'If the basement WERE properly sealed, it wouldn't leak.'<br /><br />I would use WERE in speech because I know what the subjunctive is and mistakes grate on my nerves. <br />A majority of US speakers would use WAS.<br />Jess would use WAS. <br /><br />I slaughter the subjunctive, everywhere. Sometimes this is 'character voice' and the character is being stubborn about the usage. <br /><br />Mostly it's because IMO the subjunctive mood has become 'formal and correct' English, rather than idiomatic English.<br /><br />I will spend several centuries in purgatory for my mistreatment of the subjunctive.<br /><br />How this relates to Past Tense is that subjunctive mood is not expressed in the past tense -- it being difficult to express this sorting out of possibilities in events that have already taken place. <br />Subjunctive mood is only for present tense.<br /><br />Conditional is even more fun.Jo Bournehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457862962618886252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-50382195900124714182010-03-10T09:27:24.834-05:002010-03-10T09:27:24.834-05:00Jo, I devour all of these language discourses. And...Jo, I devour all of these language discourses. And if you were to discuss the subjunctive and conditional moods, I would be equally eager to read. ;)Linda G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04576828490765434497noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-24818303352083664452010-03-09T08:58:04.848-05:002010-03-09T08:58:04.848-05:00@ Kat --
And I'm not even mentioning Conditio...@ Kat --<br /><br />And I'm not even mentioning Conditional and Subjunctive Moods.<br /><br />It's better that way. Truly. It's just . . . better not to venture into that territory.Jo Bournehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457862962618886252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-42651000604294401622010-03-09T07:14:22.495-05:002010-03-09T07:14:22.495-05:00This is taking me back to Latin...I conjugated ver...This is taking me back to Latin...I conjugated verbs until I was blue in the face.Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13419723796722964639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-29271894037559212602010-03-08T14:09:44.377-05:002010-03-08T14:09:44.377-05:00@ Helen --
I take comfort in the knowledge that a...@ Helen --<br /><br />I take comfort in the knowledge that almost nobody will wade their way through these long, dense, discursive posts about language and writing. <br /><br />I can get a little daft in the middle of them.Jo Bournehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457862962618886252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-51752709423264305682010-03-08T04:48:41.696-05:002010-03-08T04:48:41.696-05:00<>
*giggle* I love your way with words, Jo!...<><br /><br />*giggle* I love your way with words, Jo! :-)Helen R-Snoreply@blogger.com