tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post6572942894725540206..comments2024-03-20T02:26:46.482-04:00Comments on Joanna Bourne: Images of the Sinti, circa 1800Jo Bournehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13457862962618886252noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-53105894939759714832009-01-22T16:51:00.000-05:002009-01-22T16:51:00.000-05:00Ooh. As girls, my friends and I would imagine ours...Ooh. As girls, my friends and I would imagine ourselves away at St. Claire's or Mallory Towers. Once I had a job and started by book collection, one of the first things I ordered were a few Enid Blytons from the UK. I still find myself reading one every so often. To me, no author comes close to the sheer variety in imagination Blyton has.<BR/><BR/>Good luck getting unstuck.Keira Soleorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14440213826734580889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-64984603766309172402009-01-16T16:05:00.000-05:002009-01-16T16:05:00.000-05:00Hi Keira --Oh my. Oh yeah. One of the girls at S...Hi Keira --<BR/><BR/>Oh my. Oh yeah. <BR/>One of the girls at St. Claire's was a Gypsy.<BR/><BR/>Criminy, but I loved those books when I was -- what? -- nine?<BR/><BR/>There's a character in the Chrestomancy series by Diane Wynne Jones. It's a highly magic young girl from an alternate universe who desperately wants to come to England and go a girl's boarding school <I>just</I> like the ones in the books -- very obviously the St. Claire's books. <BR/><BR/>And, oh, yes. Absolutely. You're right about the shade of red at a wedding. <BR/><BR/>'Blood red' wouldn't be used, ISTM. It's magic and dangerous and connected to death and menstruation, both marimé. Seems to me the traditional red of a Rom is going to be burgundy or deep madder. Brick red, as you say.<BR/><BR/>I'm listening to what you say about the yellow. Yes. I've seen that exact shade of mustard yellow a thousand times across the Middle East. <BR/><BR/>(jo, thinking how she can use this colour info in the scene she IS going to write -- with the gypsyies, finally -- just as soon as she unsticks herself from the scene she's stuck in.)Jo Bournehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457862962618886252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-36052405752543948352009-01-16T15:19:00.000-05:002009-01-16T15:19:00.000-05:00I saw a lot of red, too, as part of that huge wedd...I saw a lot of red, too, as part of that huge wedding and just on the streets. Not a brick- or blood-red, but more vermillion or reddish-brown.<BR/><BR/>India means the yellows tend towards mustard. And the black (especially headscarves) are worn to honor that first gypsy ancestor.Keira Soleorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14440213826734580889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-61851254678078108042009-01-16T15:15:00.000-05:002009-01-16T15:15:00.000-05:00Joanna, thank you for that glorious look-see into ...Joanna, thank you for that glorious look-see into gypsy vardos. You know those Enid Blyton books that always had gypsy caravans in them? I've been fascinated since by their interiors.Keira Soleorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14440213826734580889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-31156734765447760462009-01-10T15:26:00.000-05:002009-01-10T15:26:00.000-05:00Hi Cathy --This is just one little scene I need th...Hi Cathy --<BR/><BR/>This is just one little scene I need this Rom information for. Nothing big and complex.<BR/><BR/>But I wanted some good visuals.<BR/><BR/>I did some of this searching a while back for Anneka, so I knew where to look.Jo Bournehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457862962618886252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-50709692793756364292009-01-10T15:24:00.000-05:002009-01-10T15:24:00.000-05:00Hi Susan Scott --Thank you so much for the kind wo...Hi Susan Scott --<BR/><BR/>Thank you so much for the kind words.<BR/><BR/>The problem with research is that there is just no end to it ...Jo Bournehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457862962618886252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-74889220008092196872009-01-10T15:22:00.000-05:002009-01-10T15:22:00.000-05:00Hi Keira --I saw your blog on India. Just beautif...Hi Keira --<BR/><BR/>I saw your blog on India. Just beautiful. And I envy you your trip. <BR/><BR/>As to the inside of a vardo ... <BR/>I haven't gone looking at this, and haven't chanced across any images of antique interiors. <BR/><BR/>I did drop one ref into the middle of the posting because it looked promising. It leads to some antique vardos.<BR/><BR/>Or take a glance here<BR/><BR/>http://www.romanygenes.webeden.co.uk/communities/6/004/006/112/956/images/4517049333.swf<BR/><BR/>Dickens says,<BR/><BR/>One half of it... was carpeted, and so partitioned off at the further end as to accomodate a sleeping-place, constructed after the fashion of a berth on board ship, which was shaded, like the windows, with fair white curtains... The other half served for a kitchen, and was fitted up with a stove whose small chimney passed through the roof. It also held a closet or larder, several chests, a great pitcher of water, and a few cooking-utensils and articles of crockery.<BR/><BR/><BR/>(Description of Mrs Jarley's van from Charles Dickens, Old Curiosity Shop (1840) ch. xxvii).<BR/><BR/><BR/>As to blue ... I don't see period paintings using blue for the clothing of gypsies.<BR/><BR/>Here's what the Journal of the Gypsy Lore Society, January 1890, says.<BR/>(It's in Google books if you want to track it down, but I've reproduced the whole.) <BR/><BR/><BR/>******<BR/>Gypsy Colours. <BR/><BR/>In a recent correspondence with one of our fellow-members, some reference was made to the distinguishing colours of the Gypsies. These my correspondent has been accustomed to regard as red, black, and yellow. " About the Gypsy colours," he writes, in answer to a special inquiry, " I have no authority whatever, except that at a Gypsy wedding procession in Spain, of which I was a witness, many of the women wore yellow skirts, red bodices, and black jackets, and several of the men had bunches of ribbons of that tricolour in their hats. There is also the fact, for what it may be worth, that these colours have been adopted by the / Zingari Cricket Club. I once asked a Romany chal in Spain if the red and yellow of the Spanish flag were not his tribal colours, and he replied,' Falta el negro, cabalUro.'" These are good grounds for the belief, and the Spanish Gypsy's tacit recognition of these three as his tribal colours is very distinct. Moreover, the rhyme quoted by Mr. Leland—<BR/><BR/>" Red and yellow for Romany, <BR/>And blue and pink for the Gorgiee," <BR/><BR/><BR/>goes two-thirds of the way towards endorsing this opinion. On the other hand, there is the conflicting evidence given by Dr. Solf with regard to the German Gypsies (as quoted in our number of July 1888, p. 51), to the following effect:—" Each tribe has its own banner and symbol. That of the Old Prussian tribe is a fir-tree upon a black and white ground ; that of the New Prussian tribe a birch-tree upon a green and white ground ; that of the Hanoverian tribe is a mulberry-tree upon a gold, blue, and white ground. . . . The favourite colour, both with men and women, is green, which they regard as the colour of honour." Again, in Simson's History of the Gypsies (London, 1865, pp. 213-215), it is stated :—"The male Gypsies in Scotland were often dressed in green coats, black breeches, and leathern aprons. The females were very partial to green clothes. . . . The males [of the Baillie clan] wore scarlet cloaks, reaching to their knees, and resembling exactly the Spanish fashion of the present day."<BR/><BR/>After reading these various and contradictory statements, one is puzzled to know whether there ever was any distinctively Gypsy colour. Perhaps some of our members can add something more definite upon this subject.<BR/>**************<BR/><BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>I'm going to go with red cloaks, I think. Red was a common 'country color' for cloaks and coats in 1794, in both France and England. <BR/>... And I got a good deal of backup for this in period paintings.Jo Bournehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457862962618886252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-15591301625745822692009-01-10T14:44:00.000-05:002009-01-10T14:44:00.000-05:00Hi Jenny and Moth --I don't do anything special .....Hi Jenny and Moth --<BR/><BR/>I don't do anything special ... just the Google image search. <BR/><BR/>But I will maybe get my act together sufficiently to talk about researching and organization as a technical topic.<BR/><BR/>This post -- like the ones on clothing -- is really me making notes to myself. A blog is a great place to store your links and pictures.Jo Bournehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457862962618886252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-89179312139845904582009-01-07T22:07:00.000-05:002009-01-07T22:07:00.000-05:00It seems to me that you have enough imagery to con...It seems to me that you have enough imagery to conjure a gypsy world in your story. I look forward to reading it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-3321537666267015612009-01-07T18:22:00.000-05:002009-01-07T18:22:00.000-05:00Joanna, I just stumbled across this blog. No wond...Joanna, I just stumbled across this blog. No wonder your books are so rich and full of detail when you do this much research! I'm a sucker for prints/engraving/genre paintings, any manner of image that's *real.* I've enjoyed your previous books, and I'm looking forward to the new one -- thank you so much for sharing what inspires you. :)Isabella Bradford/Susan Holloway Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00997375216314200469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-43344218012592637962009-01-05T15:14:00.000-05:002009-01-05T15:14:00.000-05:00Joanna, excellent post on the gypsies. What a fabu...Joanna, excellent post on the gypsies. What a fabulous researcher you are! Coincidentally, I've blogged about gypsies today, the original ones from India. <BR/><BR/>I'd love to see the inside of a vardo. Were the wooden insides just as colorfully painted as the outside? Is blue a predominant color not just for the caravans but also for clothing?Keira Soleorehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14440213826734580889noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-37959828578416354832009-01-04T07:15:00.000-05:002009-01-04T07:15:00.000-05:00I second Jenny!I second Jenny!E.D. Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03002135496669838071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-66259117525167588752009-01-03T19:11:00.000-05:002009-01-03T19:11:00.000-05:00Jo,You really have a gift for searching out these ...Jo,<BR/>You really have a gift for searching out these pictures. I've always admired that ability, but these pictures of gypsies really stand out for me. I've spent a lot of time myself looking for gypsy photos for my own WIP. I have a binder full, but will have to say that I don't have any (except maybe the Black and White photo) in my collection.<BR/><BR/>Would you be willing to do a technical topics sometime on the art of finding photos used to research details for your books?Jenny Meyer Gramanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07123129063440686859noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-33776109471042897362009-01-01T23:45:00.000-05:002009-01-01T23:45:00.000-05:00Hi Moth --*couh*One can assume nothing at this poi...Hi Moth --<BR/><BR/>*couh*<BR/>One can assume nothing at this point.<BR/><BR/>JoBJo Bournehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13457862962618886252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15617001.post-20865589735410291122009-01-01T21:27:00.000-05:002009-01-01T21:27:00.000-05:00Will Annique be with these gypsies? :DWill Annique be with these gypsies? :DE.D. Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03002135496669838071noreply@blogger.com